tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4203036662354683172.post9013083868311852988..comments2024-02-23T00:19:02.910-08:00Comments on Descent Into Motherhood: Responses to Survey on Unnecessary Medical TreatmentJennehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09693855868835555292noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4203036662354683172.post-72595227881854743622021-11-26T20:07:03.908-08:002021-11-26T20:07:03.908-08:00Thank you for sharing this valuable knowledge; it ...Thank you for sharing this valuable knowledge; it will be of great benefit to myself and many others. This is something I can share with my friends.<br /><a href="https://www.ufa88cambodia.com/" rel="nofollow">តើខ្លា នាគ Onlineជាអ្វី</a><br />savenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08312546564103709605noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4203036662354683172.post-68075677089220220962010-07-14T15:29:04.556-07:002010-07-14T15:29:04.556-07:00Anonymous, I didn't get the message from your ...Anonymous, I didn't get the message from your last comment in your previous comments, so I too misunderstood what you had been meaning to say. Your original messages were hurtful to me and I didn't need the other comments to get to the point of feeling that hurt. Thank you, though, for sharing your experience. It is valuable to me to hear that there are differences between the feelings that come from birthrape and rape from sexual assault.Jennehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09693855868835555292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4203036662354683172.post-40295697879255226262010-07-07T01:53:39.161-07:002010-07-07T01:53:39.161-07:00I agree with anonymous. Although her words are at ...I agree with anonymous. Although her words are at times poorly and harshly worded, her opinion is as valid as anyone else's. I see that Leslie's comments were actually far more offensive and belittling than any of the others on this page. She openly bit at Anonymous's character instead of her opinion, even once questioning the truth of her experiences with the use of the word "if", particularly disrespectful. She continued to pick apart her statements instead of reading them as a whole, taking them out of context and giving them new, distasteful meaning.<br /><br />I've been a longtime reader and I feel that, as always, Jenne maintained her respectability and gentility by neglecting to mince words as others have, and instead chose to speak from a place of truth and understanding. Kudos to you.Desireenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4203036662354683172.post-42151495912649538262010-07-07T01:30:51.608-07:002010-07-07T01:30:51.608-07:00It is not necessary to redescribe the circumstance...It is not necessary to redescribe the circumstances of a birthrape, as you would have seen that I have undergone BOTH scenarios: Forceps as well as a Penis. I also clarified that a penis is not the only object with which a woman can be sexually assaulted, going on further to also legitimize the concept of "birthrape". Not saying that one is worse than the other, but simply that they are different. It is from undergoing BOTH horrific events, that I feel the two are vastly different and therefore should be referred to as "rape" and "birthrape" in their proper contexts. Once again, since this is so hard for you to comprehend, at no point did I say that one rape is worse than the other. My opinion is completely valid, unoffensive, and not worthy of such disgust and passive belittlement, (which you ever-so-hypocritically did whilst claiming you could never do). I found that particularly offensive and amusing. <br /><br />I am sorry for any hurt/disrespect that this may have caused Jenne. I feel that were it not for the one-sided, misguided editorials and twisting of my opinion, I give Jenne the benefit of the doubt that she would take my POV into consideration instead of bashing it without fully opening her mind. <br /><br />As for calling Jenne a lesser victim, I simply meant to imply that if she faced down that type of a negative situation,she should consider herself a stronger person and a victor, rather than the victim. Something I didn't mean as such a strong offense. <br /><br />I've never said that I was more of a victim than anyone, as I dont consider myself to be a victim other than that the events took place. I consider myself, instead, a strong woman who has the ability to overcome my circumstance instead of dwelling on the negative. I have chosen to move forward with my life. I had a beautiful child as a result of BOTH experiences, and consider myself thankful for them, instead of upset. <br /><br />Once again, I ask that you reread my comments without the venomous hatred. You may find that there is legitimacy in my words. You may find that what you thought you read, is not actually written, not even between the lines. <br /><br />I have the utmost respect for Jenne, who felt enough respect to restrain herself from verbal bashing. I wish that my words hadn't have been so violently twisted that they hurt her in any way. I ask that you no longer attempt to invalidate my opinion by trying to pick it apart. Take my words for what they are, instead of what you contort them in your heads. <br /><br />In summation: I said that neither rape, nor birthrape is worse than the other, but that from my experiences the two are different. I never said that one was more sexual with the other, or that rape is only with a penis. In fact I made sure to clarify that in my second comment. I never said that Jenne is less than what she is,or her experience was less than what it was, but simply that SHE is MORE.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4203036662354683172.post-52054113611698710102010-07-07T01:30:25.140-07:002010-07-07T01:30:25.140-07:00It is not necessary to redescribe the circumstance...It is not necessary to redescribe the circumstances of a birthrape, as you would have seen that I have undergone BOTH scenarios: Forceps as well as a Penis. I also clarified that a penis is not the only object with which a woman can be sexually assaulted, going on further to also legitimize the concept of "birthrape". Not saying that one is worse than the other, but simply that they are different. It is from undergoing BOTH horrific events, that I feel the two are vastly different and therefore should be referred to as "rape" and "birthrape" in their proper contexts. Once again, since this is so hard for you to comprehend, at no point did I say that one rape is worse than the other. My opinion is completely valid, unoffensive, and not worthy of such disgust and passive belittlement, (which you ever-so-hypocritically did whilst claiming you could never do). I found that particularly offensive and amusing. <br /><br />I am sorry for any hurt/disrespect that this may have caused Jenne. I feel that were it not for the one-sided, misguided editorials and twisting of my opinion, I give Jenne the benefit of the doubt that she would take my POV into consideration instead of bashing it without fully opening her mind. <br /><br />As for calling Jenne a lesser victim, I simply meant to imply that if she faced down that type of a negative situation,she should consider herself a stronger person and a victor, rather than the victim. Something I didn't mean as such a strong offense. <br /><br />I've never said that I was more of a victim than anyone, as I dont consider myself to be a victim other than that the events took place. I consider myself, instead, a strong woman who has the ability to overcome my circumstance instead of dwelling on the negative. I have chosen to move forward with my life. I had a beautiful child as a result of BOTH experiences, and consider myself thankful for them, instead of upset. <br /><br />Once again, I ask that you reread my comments without the venomous hatred. You may find that there is legitimacy in my words. You may find that what you thought you read, is not actually written, not even between the lines. <br /><br />I have the utmost respect for Jenne, who felt enough respect to restrain herself from verbal bashing. I wish that my words hadn't have been so violently twisted that they hurt her in any way. I ask that you no longer attempt to invalidate my opinion by trying to pick it apart. Take my words for what they are, instead of what you contort them in your heads. <br /><br />In summation: I said that neither rape, nor birthrape is worse than the other, but that from my experiences the two are different. I never said that one was more sexual with the other, or that rape is only with a penis. In fact I made sure to clarify that in my second comment. I never said that Jenne is less than what she is,or her experience was less than what it was, but simply that SHE is MORE.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4203036662354683172.post-9781188497935769032010-07-06T15:19:06.167-07:002010-07-06T15:19:06.167-07:00I thank TopHat and Lady Leslie for responding to A...I thank TopHat and Lady Leslie for responding to Anonymous for me. Understandably, it has been difficult for me to phrase a response that was respectful and defended my experience given how offensive her comments were.<br /><br />Obviously, Anonymous had a strong emotional response to my use of the word rape which likely obscured for her the fact that I did not call my experience rape. I said it felt like someone was trying to rape me. Leslie described it perfectly how it felt like people were trying to get inside the sexual organs of my body in ways that I was not comfortable with. I guess I could have said "it kind of sort of maybe could have been what it might have felt like if someone had tried rape me." Pretty sure that's not good English though.<br /><br />Anyway, Anonymous, I hope that felt good for you to get that out. Its an awful feeling that comes from having power taken away from you and being hopeless to take that level of violation away. It something in human nature that when hurt the victim lashes out at who ever is around. I happened to be that person for you.Jennehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09693855868835555292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4203036662354683172.post-30025188272391448442010-07-06T09:35:04.983-07:002010-07-06T09:35:04.983-07:00The ONLY judge of whether or not an event was trau...The ONLY judge of whether or not an event was traumatic, worthy of note, and makes a person a victim or not is the person who experienced the event.<br /><br />You cannot tell someone else that they shouldn't define themselves as a victim.<br /><br />It's just silly.LadyLesliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09925818923535509944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4203036662354683172.post-58345414743325313582010-07-06T09:27:05.674-07:002010-07-06T09:27:05.674-07:00Anonymous,
I'm confused. If you are a victim...Anonymous,<br /><br />I'm confused. If you are a victim of rape, and have felt that violation of self, why would you go out of your way to tell someone else that their traumatic experience is less valid than your own? When people do things to others without permission, sometimes ignoring pleading and screaming and polite requests, and TAKE someone's choice and autonomy from them, wouldn't you feel a kindred misery?<br /><br />So, you were raped. Your assault was sexual, in a certain context. The assault upon Jenne's body was ALSO of a sexual nature. You just have to realize that childbirth is meant to be a physiologically normal, spiritual and SEXUAL event. After all, the baby exits from the vagina, which is often the site where hands, surgical tools, and instruments are inserted against the wishes (or without the knowledge or consent) of the laboring woman.<br /><br />You're protecting your own trauma via definitions. Jenne can't feel raped because YOU were raped, with a PENIS. Well you know what? I respect and hold your space as a trauma survivor. I don't go around saying you were asking for it, or you drank too much. I don't know anything about your situation, but as a fellow woman, I stand by you and YOUR definition of YOUR OWN trauma.<br /><br />I would never presume to tell you that you could have easily gotten out of that situation. Or that you were embellishing for the sake of your story.<br /><br />Do you see how disrespectful your attitude is toward another WOMAN'S experience of trauma? You're attempting to diminish her experience into something MERELY uncomfortable and unsatisfactory. Do you do this to women who have been sexually assaulted with no penetration?<br /><br />"Oh, you weren't REALLY raped. -I- was really raped."<br /><br />I'm guessing not.<br /><br />I mean YOU no disrespect, but you've NEVER had any experiences outside your own. Neither have any of us. So, how are we supposed to describe or make ANY comparisons?<br /><br />You say, "During rape your choice to say no is muffled and taken away."<br /><br />This was my experience during my birth rape. My ultimate sexual expression of love and creation, my son's birth, was made into a mockery and a rape--when the people around me didn't listen when I said "no" or when I pleaded, or when I screamed it.<br /><br />So take your sanctimonious attitude and grow up. Its time to respect the experiences of others instead of trying to preserve the impact of your own trauma by arguing semantics with someone who has more than enough reason to understand YOUR experiences better than someone who hasn't been victimized.<br /><br />--Leslie<br />(last comment deleted for typos)LadyLesliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09925818923535509944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4203036662354683172.post-802168001640814202010-07-02T00:13:58.843-07:002010-07-02T00:13:58.843-07:00Perhaps when used in this context, the phrase &quo...Perhaps when used in this context, the phrase "birthrape" should be used instead of the term "rape" as the two are drastically different. Being held down, muffled physically, and invaded by a a penis (or any other phallic-type object), is far different than what Jenne describes repeatedly as the potential fate of her birth story. That is why I was frustrated with HER use of the term. When the term "Birthrape" used with the possibility forceps insertion or other such things, it becomes much more appropriate, but again I advocate the term "birthrape",in lieu of "rape" having experienced both, I feel entitled to that opinion.<br /><br />I am also offended when Jenne speaks of herself as a victim, instead of someone who had the chance speak her voice and walk the other way when these threats were presented to her. Most, if not all "rape" and "birthrape" victims are well beyond this point when in said position. My usage of the phrase "uncomfortable situation" was my attempt at shedding some light on this concept.<br /><br />It is also worth noting that I consider the lady with the pain-killer-free episiotomy to have been assaulted too. A good friend of mine had hers torn, and the stitches completely ripped out just days after delivery by some non OB ER doc when she went to him for bleeding....uggh..that was wicked. <br /><br />I am not saying that those horror stories aren't out there, cause they are. I simply advocate that hers is not among them. I have heard, experienced, and known of far worse, from women who consider themselves lesser the victim.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4203036662354683172.post-29257670992614066852010-06-27T18:44:30.697-07:002010-06-27T18:44:30.697-07:00I wish we could have discussed this yesterday in m...I wish we could have discussed this yesterday in more detail. Yes, I'm a man, but I was there at the births of all 4 of our children.<br /><br /><i>Just because a doctor or midwife or nurse has "noble" intentions does not mean a mother was not assaulted.</i><br /><br />I felt some like punching the one Dr. who did the episotomy, without any pain killers (!), at one of the births! Even *if* it's supposed to be numb from pushing, I could tell it still hurt!Mike H.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4203036662354683172.post-42793052855330651912010-06-27T17:02:06.897-07:002010-06-27T17:02:06.897-07:00Anonymous,
Actually "birth rape" is a fa...Anonymous,<br />Actually "birth rape" is a fairly common term for the loss of power and autonomy during birth. Just because a doctor or midwife or nurse has "noble" intentions does not mean a mother was not assaulted. And some procedures in birth involve penetration and if the mother felt out of control or did not give consent, then I do feel that "rape" is an appropriate term. Jenne's birth experience wasn't simply "uncomfortable"- there were lasting emotional effects. I know moms who have experienced PTSD from birth experiences- and while I'm not qualified to say that's what Jenne experienced, what she went through should not be discounted.TopHathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03014761105792283513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4203036662354683172.post-55708551613141519832010-06-22T02:14:31.930-07:002010-06-22T02:14:31.930-07:00I do understand that what you went through was unc...I do understand that what you went through was uncomfortable, but comparing it to rape is unjustifiable. In the end you had a choice whether or not the doctor would treat you. During rape your choice to say no is muffled and taken away. It is not simply unsatisfactory, it is a full on physical invasion...not just a concept you can easily decline. With all do respect, I understand the need for sharp words in order to embellish a story, however as a victim of rape, and a person who also experienced unfortunate treatment during both labor and a surgery, the two experiences don't even begin to compare. I hope that you are recovering well from your uncomfortable,unsatisfactory experience. I mean you no disrespect, just don't make comparisons to experiences you've seemingly never had (or you would not have made the comparison). God BlessAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com